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Topic Subject: DEM - Importing Digital Elevation Models?
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posted 05-14-05 02:43 PM EDT (US)   
The map editor supports importing DEMs so we can quickly make real world maps.

However, there is no clue as to where we are to place the files once we get them and what the extension of the file should be.

I tried following the EEH directions for EE1 and DEMs and it did not work for EE2.

Anyone made any progress with this yet or have any suggestions?

BTW - If we can get this working all you people making European maps, and world maps. This will make maps accurate and save you a tremendous amount of time.

Replies:
posted 06-05-05 09:16 AM EDT (US)     26 / 39  
Hey guys I am trying to get a map of europe from http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/seg/ff/nph-newform.pl/seg/topo/customdatacd
but obviously with my luck its too big to download and I'd have to pay 25 bucks for it on a CD does anyone know any other sites where we can get DEM ?
posted 05-14-07 09:22 PM EDT (US)     27 / 39  
Not working any ideas? Saved all three files as notepad docs in Cocuments\Empire Earth II The Art of Supremacy\import folder from the original links in http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/seg/ff/nph-newform.pl/seg/topo/customdatacd?disp=one&sid=peak.140.172.184.251.07051413402931863
errors File "iwojima.bin" not found.
iwojima.bin
iwojima.fmt
iwojima.hdr

And what ever happend to Mokon and the "coming soon to an EE2H near you - dated 2005?

It could be out there somewere but nowere I'm looking.
posted 05-14-07 11:40 PM EDT (US)     28 / 39  
We never did get round to putting some stuff together as articles, other things have taken our time and people got a bit demoralised by support being dropped for the game, but it would only have been a tidied up version of the info here anyway.

Not sure what your prob could be but hopefully someone here might be able to help.

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

posted 05-15-07 07:19 PM EDT (US)     29 / 39  
So we move on to EE3, right? I thought EE2 was great because I loved the improved map editor as compared to EE. I am a tactical readiness designer for the Army and work as an Engineering and Planing Functional in the Readiness Integrated Database. My hobbie is recreating specific battles with EE map and scenario tools and get enough enjoyment out of my limited personal use. But I have always wanted to load a DEM and never could figure out the process and it wasn't something finished or even talked about in the litriture that came with the game. Do you plan on finishing this capability up front for EE3 and are you planning to encompass all of history of weapontry and unique units in more detail. If not I would like to get involved in the development of such mods. I need to know who are the current folks one would like to talk to about this type of activity. Also is script language C++ or some other executing programming?
posted 05-16-07 10:00 AM EDT (US)     30 / 39  
With all these types of game historical accuracy will always get compromised a little for good gameplay. Example - taking several hits or shots to kill a man isn't very realistic but for the sake of gameplay the units can take a few hits before dying because it would just not be practical in game terms to keep making units only to have them shot dead instantly. So this gets compromised a bit for gameplay and game balance, with armour upgrades etc allowing units to take a few more hits and so forth.

Another example - nukes. In reality any place hit by a nuke would be uninhabitable for years afterwards, yet in the game you can rebuild there straight away without dying of radiation sickness.

Nevertheless, the impact of certain weapons and technologies can still be seen in the game. EE1 especially, when the first guns and cannons come in they are not as good as arrows, crossbows and catapults, but by the next age they have superceded them. I always liked this in EE1 and felt it was handled very well. Another example is planes - when they come in, in the WW1 age, the game really gets across how their invention, and the consequential importance of having air superiority, changed the face of warfare forever, as you find yourself having to fight on the air front as well as land and sea, with all the technical difficulties that implies. It manages this without being accurate down to the last detail, and gets the point across about how devastating these new inventions were. Tweaking these weapons for "realism" any more than they have been would unbalance the game.

My point? Making something more realistic in real terms can sometimes make it less viable in game terms. It's a game with historical aspects, and not even the most technical simulator will ever match the real thing, so it's best not to get too hung up on expecting a game to be real life. In a sense, it is oxymoronic to try.

That said, there are things one can do. Modding, for example, is a great area for adding detail, and we have seen many of the units from games get new skins as people have carefully recreated the actual uniforms.

Scripting - games like Rise of Nations and EE2 replaced trigger systems in the editor with what is essentially a cut down programming language. Therefore instead of creating a trigger for an event or unit, you are essentially writing a small program and attaching it to the event, unit or whatever. You may have heard it compared to languages like C++ because the code structure is similar in places, but it is not the language itself. It's just that if you are a programmer, or have at least a passing familiarity with code structure, you will find it easier to use.

IMO scripting was a big mistake as the average gamer is not a programmer, and it was incredibly naive of game companies to expect them to be. Programmers are notoriously narcissistic and can never understand that what is simple to them is a nightmare for non programmers, so to me scripting was one of the more out of touch decisions made by game companies. The EE1 trigger system is an excellent example of how you can build complexity into a scenario without lots of code, and for all the alleged power scripting is supposed to add it isn't that impressive, doesn't really do anything that a good trigger system couldn't and alienates the average designer. Consequently games which have used scripting in their editors have never had big design communities. Rise of Nations suffered for it and so did EE2.

So let's hope we have seen the back of scripting - and a return to game companies listening to their players for a change, instead of paying lip service to them, then throwing their suggestion out of the window and going their own sweet way regardless, then wondering why only a few hardcores design for them.

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

posted 05-16-07 07:13 PM EDT (US)     31 / 39  
All valid points. Can we expect DEM capability in EE3 and will all those capabilities and procedures be published with the other up front documentation of the game? Will Scenario Design be made a complete and as you said gamer oriented process and will it be complete and documented up front? And can anyone answer the file format and font question about the .bin .fmt .hdr files from NOAA and there placement into the imports folder?
posted 05-17-07 04:39 AM EDT (US)     32 / 39  
We will have to wait and see for a lot of those answers, but my guess is we'll hear a lot about features but not many specifics we can verify until at least a demo is released.

As for your import problems, am looking into them but my PC blew up and I am using a borrowed laptop to post. Give me a day or two to sort out another one, and I'll look into it. Meanwhile, if I see anyone online who could help I'll send them this way. Additionally, the guys at EE Planet might be able to help.

My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

posted 05-17-07 08:05 PM EDT (US)     33 / 39  
Thanks for your help. If I crack the riddle I'll post. It sounded like our friends from 2005 had it work but something is missing in the string between the file formats and dropping them into the import folder as it is located on your persective My Documents, EE Folder. Thanks again.
posted 04-27-08 04:19 AM EDT (US)     34 / 39  
Does any body know a good exelent site to
download a DEM of the whole world?
posted 05-28-08 09:43 PM EDT (US)     35 / 39  
On DEMs. For EEII its real easy once you have the details. Just go to http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/mgg/ff/nph-newform.pl/mgg/topo/customdatacdand select an area on the map provided. If you donít have JAVA it will not display so you will have to go get it. In this noaa page it will default ot the Text-Entry radio button so you may have to select the Map-Based (uses a Java applet) radio button. If you select an area to big it will violate the set upper limit of 41,943,040 bytes that you may download. It will tell you in the yellow block the size of the area selected. Its best if you place a point on the globe and then zoom in button to the closest level. Single click and hold on a corner point near the area you desire and drag and stretch the selection icon out to the desired size, keep it small (no more than about a centimeter). You will want to leave all the default setting about the file characteristics as is and you can name the file something more telling than "mydata". Hit the Get Data button and your off. You will get a "Processing Complete" page with three files that EEII requires and to use them you will need to right click on each separately and select "Save Target As..." to the Import subfolder of Empire Earth II The Art of Supremacy located in your Documents folder. You will still need to name the .bin .hdr and .fmt files the same unique name so they can be associated by the EEII algorithm when the import process goes to retrieve and compile. There is no need to open just close each download as you go through them as they are now located in the proper place for importing. Now in EEII go to tools, map editor, file, import DEM... and select the .bin you just created. You will now have the opportunity to mess with the scale, and elevation which I found to be best at the smaller default scale and a max elevation of between 12 and 26 and "Generate"! Now the bad news... any map you create as a real world model will be way too small to build any meaningful scenario on since your objects will always be too large for the scale you generate, unless your a big Civilization IV fan, but it is neat to fiddle with. EEII's algorithm only handles the 16 integer data type so don't try the 32 or any other as it will not interpret the data with any desired result. Ultimately you will probably do better to render terrain yourself and create several scenarios to cover a large region. I accomplished this with the island of Iwo Jima to a very satisfactory detail. I was able to play out a very enjoyable reenactment to include areas of operation and phase lines and assaulting a hidden enemy by burying pillboxes under the terrain with no shadows. Of course I was unable to land 70,000 marines but my squad size elements with tank support do the trick as I have enough reserves in transports to go the full 36 days of battle. Hope this helps, enjoy.

[This message has been edited by cringie (edited 05-28-2008 @ 09:50 PM).]

posted 09-18-08 01:32 AM EDT (US)     36 / 39  
Is There A Way To Get Past The Size Restrictions
posted 11-20-08 09:38 AM EDT (US)     37 / 39  
"The page you requested is not known.

Please follow any of the subject links below to find the data and information in which you are interested.

Thank you."

That is what appears now when I decide to try to get my DEMs from http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/mgg/ff/nph-newform.pl/mgg/topo/customdatacd...

So then I try to get to the rest of the links, but none works out, none has DEM. I find later something called ETOPO1 but when I download an area and try it on the editor, the map doesn't work out. I figured it might be when I select the format, but dunno...

Maybe the correct link is over there, somewhere, but I just can't find it.

Any help please? any new link please? or at least any instructions over there? thanks.

EDIT: Forget it... it worked again... lol ty

[This message has been edited by Ruluk Okoth (edited 11-20-2008 @ 05:28 PM).]

posted 06-23-12 02:45 PM EDT (US)     38 / 39  
ey guys, where is the problem here?:
http://s3.subirimagenes.com:81/imagen/previo/thump_7792510sin-ttulo1.png
http://www.subeimagenes.com/img/sin-titulo-308810.html

Edit: I have the files in import folder(.bin, .hdr, .fmt and .txt)but when I open in editor it doesn't work, makes me a text saying "unable to load DEM(are.bin...etc all there?)

thanks

[This message has been edited by eighen (edited 06-23-2012 @ 02:53 PM).]

posted 08-30-19 09:37 PM EDT (US)     39 / 39  
Hey huys...anyone has some idea of how dems can be created from NOAA?? .fmt ans .hdr are really easy to create, since they store general information about the map, but .bin for me is a complete mystery. Does anybody know how to convert .tiff or any other image format with grayscale colours showing height information to .bin??
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