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Topic Subject: Tower walls of death - ultimate bronze-middle strategy
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posted 07-24-02 11:24 AM EDT (US)   
Heya guys, my first post here, heh. Well before I submit it to EEH strategy articles, just though I`d post it here for some revision. gonna add screens later on tonight, anyway here goes: (sorry for bad SP, didn`t have time to go over it yet)
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TOWER WALLS OF DEATH
ULTIMATE BRONZE-MIDDLE STRATEGY

This will sounds crazy, these who felt to this strategy called me a madman, loonatic, and the best player they have seen. Well none of these are true, WHAHAHAHAHAHA, ahem, but this strategy may very well change the way we all play Bronze Middle game. You know how Siege Towers are never used? Well, as the word of this strategy goes around, Siege Towers will become one of the most used units, mark my words, heh. And today I had a 2vs1 expert game after my partner got rushed killed by a horde of spearman about 8 min into the game, and well...I beat these 2 REALLY good guys, with u won`t belive this - 360 - 40 kills ratio!!! So read on:

JUSTIFICATIONS:
Historicly, archers would often hide behind a wooden shield to cover from incoming arrows, especially during a town siege. These of you who played stronghold might have seen it. Now These siege towers work the same way, basicly taking on all enemy fire. In Addition these towers placed in line will make enemy cavalry or infantry attack to go around this wall giving your archers time to kill them. So think of this as your archers behind a stone wall, no infantry and cavalry can touch them and enemy arrows also rarely get rhough.

BUILD ORDER:
=Put 5 citizens to the forage patch (don`t build Settlement by it, unless it way too far away)
=Put the rest of the coming citizens on wood
=Build Archery range as soon as u have enough wood
=Build Settlement by the gold mine, and set 6 of your wood citizens to gather gold
=Build Siege Factory
=Keep on sending all the villagers u r getting on wood.
=Build an archer and a siege tower and upgrade them if u sure u won`t get rushed or keep on pumping our archers and siege towers otherwise.
=Keep on putting villagers mostly to wood, and as you see that u need more gold expand to other gold mines.
=Keep on producing Archers and Siege Towers in something like 4-6 archers to 1 Tower ratio.
=Keep on building Archer Ranges and Siege Workshops in 3 to 1 ratio every chance u get some spare wood.

UNIT UPGRADE:
Archers: Range, Attack, Arrow Armor
Siege tower: Armor, HP, Speed

PREFERED CIV UPGRADES:
If u playing with custom maps here how it goes:
-Archer: Range, Attack, Cost Reduction
-Wood Gathering, Gold Gathering
-Siege: Armor, Hitpoints, Cost Reduction, Speed
The rest is up to u.

STRATEGY:
-Set your archers into a LINE formaion - ***** and order them to stand ground
-Now select your towers with something like 1 to 5 archers ratio and task them to form a line, Put your archers in line behind these towers. So you would have something like this.
-Now just keep on moving you towers ahead of your archers and make your archers follow behind the towers.
-If u see the enemy is flanking u form behind, just order your towers to move to cover behinds of your archers.

POSSIBLY COUNTERS
1-Another wall of death will work for SURE, especially if u got Crossbows which outrange archers.
2-Wall of death with Massed siege weapons to destroy enemy Siege Towers.
3-Plague and malaria with a prophet.
4-Flanking with Catapracts(SP?) preferably from both sides.
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Producer, Art & Design Director
Reverie World Studios, INC
Replies:
posted 07-24-02 11:41 AM EDT (US)     1 / 29  
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Go away!


Angel AzN | News Editor Lead EH, HeavenGames LLC
"Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut, Civil War Battle of Mobile Bay
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posted 07-24-02 01:18 PM EDT (US)     2 / 29  

Quote:

This will sounds crazy, these who felt to this strategy called me a madman, loonatic, and the best player they have seen.

I do not recall calling you the best player I have ever seen, I do remember calling you loonatic and madman though.

posted 07-24-02 01:25 PM EDT (US)     3 / 29  
Haha, here`s 2 of the 'TOWER WALLS OF DEATH' victims
And nope, I got these 'best player' comments today after taking on these 2 expert players. Played 5 games altogether and well so far not a single loss, noone even got close to beating The 'TOWER WALLS OF DEATH' heh.

Producer, Art & Design Director
Reverie World Studios, INC
posted 07-24-02 01:39 PM EDT (US)     4 / 29  
Actually I think I just worked out a nice counter to your Siege Tower Long Bow combo. It makes use of another group of units never used much in the game.
posted 07-24-02 02:31 PM EDT (US)     5 / 29  
Gah, just killed by Azn and shykre, was an FFa, sent all my stuff to shykre and Azn came with for me with an army he was building from the beggining gah.

Counters hmm..
Another one would be Massed Stone Throwers, but well, If I am to bring some cavalry with my guys, as well as some pikeman...


Producer, Art & Design Director
Reverie World Studios, INC
posted 07-24-02 02:38 PM EDT (US)     6 / 29  
Counters to this start:
Me


I own with a passion.. haha. Also finished up on Shykre minutes after you left . Parsian Cavs still are the most viable and versatile units in the Dark. Wee!
Cav Archers beats this combo easily. You need about 3/4 of the amount of cav archers towards thier archers to beat em. 1 to 1 would be better though. But 3/4 to 1 works fine also.

posted 07-24-02 05:16 PM EDT (US)     7 / 29  
How do you pull that off? Equal (or close) numbers of Cav Archers to Longbows means you've spent nearly twice the Pop to try and counter him. If you're doing that, are you better off with CA than just sending in twice as many swordsmen?

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posted 07-24-02 07:32 PM EDT (US)     8 / 29  
Actually Azn, Can archers can`t beat "TOWER WALLS OF DEATH" ur archers automaticly target the towers unless u get really close, and even so still half of your guys will be attacking the towers. And Cav archer do tak on 2 pop each and do cost tad more.

As for Massed Cataphracts(SP?), I just added a little 3 villies on the Iron mine half way throuhg the building odder and had like 1pike for every 5 archers, and well...that line of pikes I tried putting between Towers and archers took on all incoming Cataphracts(SP?).

Now...just got to figure out how the hell to deal with stone throwers...hmm....I guess having some cavalry around...since I am always getting like 2-3k unused food from the forage patch and hunting nearby animals, and there is always enougth gold...so can try that...

Just thinking outloud here


Producer, Art & Design Director
Reverie World Studios, INC
posted 07-24-02 09:59 PM EDT (US)     9 / 29  
counters-

1. dont let you build up that army. just keep pressuring you with sword infranty and calvary all through the game.

2. hit your economy. your stratigie is heavy on both wood and gold if you keep having your eco hit it will be hard for you to build up.

3. hit the archers. have one part of the army to hit the army head on then have another part come up behind and hit the archers with no defence.

4.just build up a large army of sword infranty and calvary then micro past the towers and right to the archers.

its not UNBEATABLE but i will say its pretty good

[This message has been edited by toxic tAnk (edited 07-24-2002 @ 10:02 PM).]

posted 07-24-02 10:24 PM EDT (US)     10 / 29  
Your problem is not that you dont have a awesome strat Ex-T . Its that you wall up. Im almost dead sure that when you wall up, you get a huge sense of protection, while the truth is that walls can be taken down to siege easily. That also limits your amount of mines. Which means youu cant rebuild as fast. And also, I tend to queue up kills if I'm in not hurry to kill off a army .

Eggman: I pulled it off alright . I had more then Ex-T and Shykre (it was FFA) combined, plus 5,000 . Also, I had almost all Capitols. I had 5 gold mines (all capitols, and alsmot 4 different TCs surrounding my lumberjacks. So to say, I could have kept going until he ran outta resources anyways . Yes though, I did sacrafice 2 whole armies to knock down all his walls. But my first army of Prophets and Cavalry was what really messed him up . THe other armes was just a distraction to make him fight on 3 sides. I got a full map screenshot if ya would like to see

TIP: Dont wall up! Lol.. I hate walls . Geez! Be a man about it

Oh yeah, about the Swordsmen, I dont feel thier as versatile as the CA. Because Swords lose very easily to Cavs and sometimes archers. While sending twice as many might of worked (actually, would most likely work), I would of lost alot more. CAs fair better against Cavs (which Shykre had), so it was better for me to have a expensive army that does well against two armies then one that sucks against both (and relying on mass is not my thing either, i seem to always lose).

After I took out Ex-T though, I was wiped by Shykres cavs. So I with to Persian Cavs. Thus destroying him. And proving once again: Persian Cavs 0wnz . Its almost one hit one kill if your on a hill with maxed attack and mountain bonus hehe.

[This message has been edited by AzN (edited 07-24-2002 @ 10:26 PM).]

posted 07-24-02 10:36 PM EDT (US)     11 / 29  
BTW, I never tried it yet, but I'm thinking hard microing of Stone Throwers and Persian Cavs should beat this. Because if you put the Stone Throwers in front to get at the Archers, and your Persian Cavs in the back out of the reach of Archers, this should be easy, because no Cataphract can even though your Stone guys. Thier absolutely no match (not even close. 1 FU persian cav can take on 1 1/2 of cavalry ). Problem would be if you had Stone Throwers too... oops, did I just give you a idea?
posted 07-25-02 00:46 AM EDT (US)     12 / 29  
best counter would probably be war elephant/sword cav

war elephants can draw fire if sent in first and then sword cav can run past

just a geuss though


Anarchy_Balsac(owner of Anarchy clan in ee)
posted 07-25-02 04:45 AM EDT (US)     13 / 29  
Nice thread going here. Good to hear about seige towers being used. I have only used them once. Filled them up with swords and pike. Used the tower as a troop carrier. Walzed past the towers into the center of town. (extra HP helps I'm sure) when the towers collapsed. My present of massed steel wrecked havoc. Seemed to work fine. My downfall was being distracted with my Trojan horses. The opponents ally ate my town with barely a defence on my part. This strategy might have worked better if I was in the pocket. Review; used seige tower to bypass stone towers. Walls would have stopped my from entering downtown. The element of suprise was still on my side. Has anybody else used siege-towers like eggs ready to be hatched? Am I out of line with this concept? One more question....Is this wall of death more effective in dm?
posted 07-25-02 06:52 AM EDT (US)     14 / 29  
I observed a 1v1 middle-middle DM a little while ago. I was most interested as to just what one of the guys was doing with a line of siege towers, considering he hadn't occupied them, simply started them off.

I realised what he was doing when I saw the mass of trebuchets following not far behing, supported by Knights and Pikemen. The other guys, with a similar amry, sans Siege towers, never actually made it around the siege towers, he just died a hideously painful death.

Interesting game to watch, but this isn't the newest concept. It is perhaps vulnerable to massed vikings in dark, provided they were well managed.

Other weaknesses I can see, it is very much a one front army. If you were to be flanked by sufficient shock, your archers would die a hideous death. If your opponent can attack from even two directions, then you lose the shelter. as wel, archers are not the most effective anti-wall/bulding/tower unit, somewhere you'd have to have trailing siege in a game that has passed early stages.

posted 07-25-02 08:42 AM EDT (US)     15 / 29  
Although I'm not big on pre-gunpowder epochs, it seems to me that an equal force of battering rams and swordsmen would offer pretty formidable opposition... especially with a prophet in the back casting a couple 'quakes. That's the approach I'd probably try.

If you populate settlements and incorperate housing with the Tower Walls Of Death, your archers would enjoy a morale bonus as well.

On the other hand, if the attackers bring a Warrior Hero, all your arrows do 40% less damage, which will most likely bounce off the increased arrow armor, leaving said archer open to evisciration by said swordsman.

As for the elephant thing, let me ask you this: would YOU ride an elephant _through_ an enemy camp? That's gotta be a wild ride...

posted 07-25-02 02:43 PM EDT (US)     16 / 29  
Yeah, I heard Elephant meat was not so bad
posted 07-25-02 07:15 PM EDT (US)     17 / 29  
hm...So far I have heard of strategies which COST twice as much pop or resources.
Cavalry attack doesn`t work anymore after I added a line of pikeman between archers and towers.
Eles can be eaily picked up with some micro, just select all archers and order them to attack them 1 by 1. Besides Eles are expansive, and 2 times the pop of archers.

But I think Intrepid just came up with a good counter.
He would use Siege Rams with swordsman and cataphracts in a V formation and would literaly ram the tower wall pushing the towers inside to let his guys in...that worked against the computer, he didn`t had a chance to try it with me yet.


Producer, Art & Design Director
Reverie World Studios, INC
posted 07-26-02 07:10 AM EDT (US)     18 / 29  
Why would not vikings work? All it would take would for them to be sitting there, simply make sure that your wall of siege towers is oriented in a direction other than that which your wall is pointed at and literally walk over to the archers and maul them.

Other than in dark, onesimply needs to remember that your wall of siege towers can only point in one direction at a time, one simply needs to attack from two points at more than 90 apart. Two small group of shock would do the trick, throw in a little siege, one of the groups has to suceed.

posted 07-26-02 10:32 PM EDT (US)     19 / 29  
Ueriah, it seems as if you thought these were actual walls made of stone. Ex-T meant a wall of Siege Towers and Archers behind, not like walling up your base and sort-of "turtling".

Proud member and webmaster of the [Black] Clan as [Black] W_M.
posted 07-27-02 05:26 PM EDT (US)     20 / 29  
ele's are expensive, but this is death match your talking about right? true you can add pike men but then i can add archers, as far as the micro vs. ele's goes the sword cav would get to you before you finish them off

i think the ram-sword cav is a better idea though


Anarchy_Balsac(owner of Anarchy clan in ee)

[This message has been edited by Anarchy_Balsac1 (edited 07-27-2002 @ 05:27 PM).]

posted 07-27-02 05:42 PM EDT (US)     21 / 29  
Nope, this is RM .
I still manage to get a good enoufh economy anyways. So mines well call it DM
posted 07-27-02 08:56 PM EDT (US)     22 / 29  
well at least i snuck one into the forum party

Anarchy_Balsac(owner of Anarchy clan in ee)
posted 07-28-02 05:30 PM EDT (US)     23 / 29  
Is my earlier post missing? This is a strategy forum is is not. My simple question is using those seige towers as easter eggs. A primitive troop carrier like a Bradly. Protects the infantry from small-arms fire and gets them to a spot in a hurry. In this case the small-arms fire is those nasty towers. Or maybe use them to cause havoc in the TC while the main force is preparing for a full assault. Or concept #3; Use the siege towers to strike the temple(s) as your prophets are standing by.
I guess what I am getting at is I am looking for a discussion on the multiple uses of said towers. The designers and testers put(left) them in for a reason. Some viable stradegy that makes them essental. Kinda like flame-throwers for an all infantry task force. Or those silly gunships in the Industrial age to knock out the ballons. Or even barbarians to force a 2 or three front war. Wish AOK had the barbarians. Those woods really gummed up the game. If you suffered through this posting. Thank you for your patience. Just my way of trying to liven up the place before we all migrate away.

A clever death is perferable to a slow one.
posted 07-30-02 06:29 AM EDT (US)     24 / 29  
Did someone say send eles into archer fire? That is silly cause archers a the counter to war eles.

Anyway it is nice to see someone trying to breed some life into this game. But then again a three minute cav rush will kill this strat just like all the others that take two military buildings. But i can see it being a cool fun game strat.

posted 07-31-02 00:04 AM EDT (US)     25 / 29  
"That is silly cause archers a the counter to war eles."

wrong, war eles have shock(which beats out archers)

they are a bit slow but due to their hitpoints they'll hold them off long enough for sword cav to come in


Anarchy_Balsac(owner of Anarchy clan in ee)
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